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	<title>Comments on: How do you solve a problem like jet fuel?</title>
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	<link>http://www.davidstrahan.com/blog/?p=153</link>
	<description>David Strahan is an award-winning investigative journalist and documentary film-maker who specializes in popularizing some of the most difficult and important stories in business and science.</description>
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		<title>By: admin</title>
		<link>http://www.davidstrahan.com/blog/?p=153&#038;cpage=1#comment-1506</link>
		<dc:creator>admin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 May 2008 08:07:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.davidstrahan.com/blog/?p=153#comment-1506</guid>
		<description>This is guest post from Pushker Kharecha, climate researcher at NASA’s Goddard Institute for Space Studies in New York: 
 
John’s suggestion boils down to the idea of geoengineering, i.e. planetary-scale technological &#039;quick-fixes&#039; to help cool the global climate.  The most common geoengineering proposal is injection of sulfate aerosols into the lower stratosphere, meant to mimic the effects of large volcanic eruptions (which have a temporary but significant cooling effect on global climate). John’s argument is essentially that (1) geoengineering is absolutely necessary at this point, and (2) airplanes could provide an effective means of dispersal of the cooling agents.  

Geoengineering via sulfate injection has actually been proposed by some prominent scientists, e.g. Nobel laureate Paul Crutzen. It&#039;s still a very controversial issue, and I won&#039;t discuss the detailed pros and cons here. Suffice it to say that it&#039;s based purely on theory, and although there could be significant benefits from the cooling effect, there would almost certainly be major negative impacts as well. Perhaps most important of these is the continuing acidification of the ocean, which among other things could cause mass extinction of marine organisms. Ultimately, although geoengineering might mitigate the warming &lt;em&gt;effect&lt;/em&gt; of increasing atmospheric CO2, it does nothing to address the root &lt;em&gt;cause&lt;/em&gt;, i.e. fossil fuel and land use emissions. These are just the basic facts....

As for my &lt;em&gt;opinion&lt;/em&gt; of John’s argument, while part (2) might well have some merit, I don&#039;t entirely agree with part (1), i.e. the premise. There are apparently some climate scientists who would agree with it, but I prefer to take a more optimistic approach. I think it&#039;s entirely plausible that society will start curtailing CO2 emissions in time to avoid the need for drastic geoengineering measures -- in fact, Jim Hansen, myself, and our colleagues have outlined such measures in detail in several recent papers (http://arxiv.org/abs/0704.2782, http://arxiv.org/abs/0804.1126).  

So, the main thing missing is the will, since the means are already there -- although they are obviously not being applied to the necessary scale. The global public already seems to recognize not only the seriousness and urgency of the global warming problem, but it also seems to be willing to take action to resolve it (based on public opinion polls from around the world). So, it seems to me that the onus is really on elected leaders and leaders of industry to obey the public will! The change has to start here in the US and in other developed countries -- mainly because they are responsible for the vast majority of the problem to date, but also because their actions would likely have a ripple effect among developing countries.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is guest post from Pushker Kharecha, climate researcher at NASA’s Goddard Institute for Space Studies in New York: </p>
<p>John’s suggestion boils down to the idea of geoengineering, i.e. planetary-scale technological &#8216;quick-fixes&#8217; to help cool the global climate.  The most common geoengineering proposal is injection of sulfate aerosols into the lower stratosphere, meant to mimic the effects of large volcanic eruptions (which have a temporary but significant cooling effect on global climate). John’s argument is essentially that (1) geoengineering is absolutely necessary at this point, and (2) airplanes could provide an effective means of dispersal of the cooling agents.  </p>
<p>Geoengineering via sulfate injection has actually been proposed by some prominent scientists, e.g. Nobel laureate Paul Crutzen. It&#8217;s still a very controversial issue, and I won&#8217;t discuss the detailed pros and cons here. Suffice it to say that it&#8217;s based purely on theory, and although there could be significant benefits from the cooling effect, there would almost certainly be major negative impacts as well. Perhaps most important of these is the continuing acidification of the ocean, which among other things could cause mass extinction of marine organisms. Ultimately, although geoengineering might mitigate the warming <em>effect</em> of increasing atmospheric CO2, it does nothing to address the root <em>cause</em>, i.e. fossil fuel and land use emissions. These are just the basic facts&#8230;.</p>
<p>As for my <em>opinion</em> of John’s argument, while part (2) might well have some merit, I don&#8217;t entirely agree with part (1), i.e. the premise. There are apparently some climate scientists who would agree with it, but I prefer to take a more optimistic approach. I think it&#8217;s entirely plausible that society will start curtailing CO2 emissions in time to avoid the need for drastic geoengineering measures &#8212; in fact, Jim Hansen, myself, and our colleagues have outlined such measures in detail in several recent papers (<a href="http://arxiv.org/abs/0704.2782" rel="nofollow">http://arxiv.org/abs/0704.2782</a>, <a href="http://arxiv.org/abs/0804.1126)" rel="nofollow">http://arxiv.org/abs/0804.1126)</a>.  </p>
<p>So, the main thing missing is the will, since the means are already there &#8212; although they are obviously not being applied to the necessary scale. The global public already seems to recognize not only the seriousness and urgency of the global warming problem, but it also seems to be willing to take action to resolve it (based on public opinion polls from around the world). So, it seems to me that the onus is really on elected leaders and leaders of industry to obey the public will! The change has to start here in the US and in other developed countries &#8212; mainly because they are responsible for the vast majority of the problem to date, but also because their actions would likely have a ripple effect among developing countries.</p>
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		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://www.davidstrahan.com/blog/?p=153&#038;cpage=1#comment-1502</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 May 2008 20:00:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.davidstrahan.com/blog/?p=153#comment-1502</guid>
		<description>There is in my opinion third option;

Releasing climate active agents during flight could make the airplanes CO2 negative at a large rate.

It is not the case that I believe this would be a good solution, it just is less worse. 

We have to be able deal with scenarios worse than what the IPCC projects -- this means, no matter how you flip it, doping the atmosphere with sun screen. Either water, or other cooling agents like the ones we get from large volcano eruptions. This mechanism is after all proven not to induce irrevocable catastrophe -- while if the Tundra melts, or the Amazonas burns, then we are in hell.

There is no other realistic immediate delivery at the moment than airliners -- they would spread the agents evenly, and the tech is there and a whole lot simpler than rocket tech. 

Further, the costs could be shared between governments(through the quota system, and tax breaks), consumers (that could pay a premium to fly with planes on climate cooling duty), and the aviation industry out of self interest.

A small fact: the current IPCC models factor methane emissions from melting tundra. But they do not factor the emissions from the melting lakes in north russia. Measurements indicate that the methane release from the lakes is equal in size to that from ground. Mind that this is factors working into a feedback loop, and the halflife of methane that escapes to the atmosphere.

It is insane to accept a solution to a problem on this scale with no guarantee of success nor any fast enough mechanism to mitigate failure of either estimates or the implementations of the (too weak?) measures.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is in my opinion third option;</p>
<p>Releasing climate active agents during flight could make the airplanes CO2 negative at a large rate.</p>
<p>It is not the case that I believe this would be a good solution, it just is less worse. </p>
<p>We have to be able deal with scenarios worse than what the IPCC projects &#8212; this means, no matter how you flip it, doping the atmosphere with sun screen. Either water, or other cooling agents like the ones we get from large volcano eruptions. This mechanism is after all proven not to induce irrevocable catastrophe &#8212; while if the Tundra melts, or the Amazonas burns, then we are in hell.</p>
<p>There is no other realistic immediate delivery at the moment than airliners &#8212; they would spread the agents evenly, and the tech is there and a whole lot simpler than rocket tech. </p>
<p>Further, the costs could be shared between governments(through the quota system, and tax breaks), consumers (that could pay a premium to fly with planes on climate cooling duty), and the aviation industry out of self interest.</p>
<p>A small fact: the current IPCC models factor methane emissions from melting tundra. But they do not factor the emissions from the melting lakes in north russia. Measurements indicate that the methane release from the lakes is equal in size to that from ground. Mind that this is factors working into a feedback loop, and the halflife of methane that escapes to the atmosphere.</p>
<p>It is insane to accept a solution to a problem on this scale with no guarantee of success nor any fast enough mechanism to mitigate failure of either estimates or the implementations of the (too weak?) measures.</p>
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		<title>By: Geoffrey Warrren</title>
		<link>http://www.davidstrahan.com/blog/?p=153&#038;cpage=1#comment-1493</link>
		<dc:creator>Geoffrey Warrren</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 May 2008 23:20:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.davidstrahan.com/blog/?p=153#comment-1493</guid>
		<description>This is the most detailed overview of Peak Oil from an aviation perspective I have read and while it is sobering to grasp the enormity of the challenge faced by aviation in a carbon-constrained world, it is also encouraging to see the progress already being made.  In the light of the recent escalation of global food prices, it is vital that the solutions found to mitigate Peak Oil do not seriously undermine efforts to feed the world&#039;s poor.  If nothing else, this article highlights the bind we are in with our addiction to fossil fuels and documents the problem of scaleability very well.  This is why alternative fuels like hydrogen and quite probably ethanol too are never going to be replacements for liquid fuels derived from crude oil.  Hydrogen simply lacks the energy density except in liquid form but that requires very expensive cryogenics to keep the temperature not far above absolute zero.  World scale ethanol production from crops requires huge amounts of land we simply don&#039;t have.  Even enhancing global liquid fuel use with 10% ethanol extender will prove difficult without compromising food production.  The aviation industry is to be commended for facing up to the fuel challenge posed by Peak Oil well ahead of the political establishment and I will be following developments of synthesing fuel from jatropha, algae and timber waste with interest.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is the most detailed overview of Peak Oil from an aviation perspective I have read and while it is sobering to grasp the enormity of the challenge faced by aviation in a carbon-constrained world, it is also encouraging to see the progress already being made.  In the light of the recent escalation of global food prices, it is vital that the solutions found to mitigate Peak Oil do not seriously undermine efforts to feed the world&#8217;s poor.  If nothing else, this article highlights the bind we are in with our addiction to fossil fuels and documents the problem of scaleability very well.  This is why alternative fuels like hydrogen and quite probably ethanol too are never going to be replacements for liquid fuels derived from crude oil.  Hydrogen simply lacks the energy density except in liquid form but that requires very expensive cryogenics to keep the temperature not far above absolute zero.  World scale ethanol production from crops requires huge amounts of land we simply don&#8217;t have.  Even enhancing global liquid fuel use with 10% ethanol extender will prove difficult without compromising food production.  The aviation industry is to be commended for facing up to the fuel challenge posed by Peak Oil well ahead of the political establishment and I will be following developments of synthesing fuel from jatropha, algae and timber waste with interest.</p>
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		<title>By: auntiegrav</title>
		<link>http://www.davidstrahan.com/blog/?p=153&#038;cpage=1#comment-1492</link>
		<dc:creator>auntiegrav</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 May 2008 21:21:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.davidstrahan.com/blog/?p=153#comment-1492</guid>
		<description>First step: Prove that anyone actually, truly, NEEDS to fly anywhere. 
Airlines down the tubes? No great loss except to those who have built empires on fooling people into believing they &quot;absolutely, positively HAVE to be there overnight.&quot;
No, they don&#039;t.
Poor planning and egotistical systems that simply suck resources out of the ground and spew them into the stratosphere are no replacement for cooperating with the environment which spawned us and taking the time to do things locally and with care.
I spent the best parts of my life working on aircraft. I love them. But as with most of the things we fall in love with, they are simply infatuations, and it&#039;s time to grow up.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>First step: Prove that anyone actually, truly, NEEDS to fly anywhere.<br />
Airlines down the tubes? No great loss except to those who have built empires on fooling people into believing they &#8220;absolutely, positively HAVE to be there overnight.&#8221;<br />
No, they don&#8217;t.<br />
Poor planning and egotistical systems that simply suck resources out of the ground and spew them into the stratosphere are no replacement for cooperating with the environment which spawned us and taking the time to do things locally and with care.<br />
I spent the best parts of my life working on aircraft. I love them. But as with most of the things we fall in love with, they are simply infatuations, and it&#8217;s time to grow up.</p>
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